We tasked six Malaysian designers to interview each other, on anything they’ve ever wanted to know about their peers.

Shot on location at Alia Bastamam’s Showroom. Photography by Aiman Yazid. Text by Abdul Aziz Draim.

In Conversation with Alia Bastamam and Kel Wen of Behati.

Alia Bastamam, the queen of elegant womenswear, and Kel Wen of Behati, the disruptor of cultures. The seasoned dressmaker and the contemporary provocateur. Two poles apart yet they share a kindred spirit in following their hearts. Displaying genuine admiration for each other’s art, they sit down to explore their respecive creative process as they share insights into the history and future of modern Malaysian fashion. Be entertained.

Step inside this exclusive interview between Alia Bastamam and Kel Wen of Behati, to delve deeper into their perspectives.

Alia Bastamam (AB): I want to know how you started in the fashion industry. How did you fall into being a fashion designer?

Kel Wen (KW): Actually, I never really planned to become a fashion designer when I was in secondary school. I wasn’t reading fashion magazines. I was just reading red carpet news. How the celebrities were dressing. That was my first touch with fashion. It was when I wanted to choose which college to go to. I picked Animation because I was drawing comics, and I’d always focused on the clothes too…

AB: When you were doing the comics, you mean?

KW: Yeah, when I created the characters, I also designed their clothes.

AB: So you were that boy at school who was always drawing comics.

KW: Yes, I drew every time. Then, my cousin brought me to a Khoon Hooi fashion show—my first KL Fashion Week—and that was my first experience at watching and knowing what is fashion. So my cousin told me that maybe I could do it too, be a designer. Then she brought me to Raffles College just to look around…

AB: So you went to Raffles? I was from Raffles too!

KW: I didn’t know you went to Raffles!
AB: Well, obviously I’m your super senior lah (laughs). I graduated 2006. I’ll show you my graduation book later.

KW: So yeah, after the show, and visiting Raffles, I then I decided to pursue fashion design and just go for it.

AB:  Was it because of the clothes or more about the showmanship? Because I realise that from your brand, you like to make things that people want to talk about. You are a showman, basically, right?

KW:  Yeah, you can say so. Because I feel as a fashion designer, I’m not just making well-tailored clothes, but creating fashion as a whole conversation. Because fashion is so vague and so wide, right? It’s about the show, it’s the people that we put out…there’s more to it than just the fabrics. Fashion defines the community of this time. My background, I was also a musical kid, growing up doing theatre, so I guess there is some dramatic influence when it comes to my art. I present it in a more theatrical form. I guess my eyes were developed through that. That’s why it becomes what it is today because of how I see things before.

AB: I really enjoy your campaign videos. Because they trigger. They make you think, “This is really interesting.” You play with the culture, and how you separate the fashion and the culture to create something shocking— it’s amazing. I like that. Like the tengkolok skirt.

KW: (laughs) Yeah. I mean, I like people to have conversations about fashion. To just question their mind about art in general. To take fashion as art. It can be provoking, but it’s to create a feeling through fashion. And going back to my films, I think film is another way of me showing fashion in a different impact. What I want to play with through my films is the energy of the clothes.

I think now people don’t just shop fashion for the workmanship, but it’s about being a part of the brand, the community that we create. The energy that we want to give when people are wearing it. So people will be reminded of that image when they wear it.

My investor always asks, “Why are you doing this video?” But I think the videos give a different value to the clothes.

AB: I believe you have a cult following for Behati, especially because of the videos.

KW: I love your videos too, especially the one you shot at the beach. Was that in Langkawi?

AB: No, that was in Rawa. We submitted that to the Berlin Fashion Film Festival, and we were shortlisted from the shortlist. Among Mugler, Topshop, and Tom Ford…so hundreds of brands. So our video will be on the website for the rest of the year. We didn’t win, obviously, but you should try that. Do it! You never know.

KW: I want to know what was the first theme you picked to represent you?

AB: It’s so silly, okay (laughs). It’s so stupid… but then, in my defense, if you Google all the other bigger, more established designers in 2006, what their aesthetic was then compared to what their aesthetic is now, it is completely different. Melinda Looi, Khoon Hooi…but I think I’m still the same (laughs). I’ll show you.

KW: I’m curious because you know your style so well, so did you know from the start?

AB: Okay, so my graduation collection was like my first taste of fame, you know? Because I’ve always wanted to be a fashion designer. Previously, I started sewing when I was eight years old. I had this whole box of Barbie clothes that I actually made with my mum’s sewing machine because she kedekut, she didn’t want to buy me extra Barbie clothes! What’s more, I even picked up crochet to make a crochet hat for my Barbie.

So for my graduation collection, the message that I wanted to put out was that women should be free and be able to go and hang out with friends. I was from a very strict family. I wasn’t allowed to go clubbing, or to the shopping malls. So my theme was “Girls’ Night Out”. Why? Because we watched Sex And The City religiously in 2006. (proceeds to show her graduation year book)

Can you tell that this is my design? I still do this kind of silhouette—my Oasis collection (Resort 23/24) had a white dress that looks exactly like this.

KW: So you haven’t changed too much…

AB: I haven’t. I’m very comfortable with my style. Of course, this hairstyle then was different, because the bigger the hair the closer to God. (laughs)

KW: I can see the fluidity of the design which is very you.

AB: I’m only embarrassed about the hair actually…my classmates had nice designs also, some of them were heavily inspired by Melinda Looi because she was the “it” designer then. But my idol was Rizalman. He had this Sex And The City kebaya collection—the girls wore embroidered Nyonyo kebaya with mini skirts. Quite controversial at the time.

KW: What I always see about Alia Bastamam is that she’s the “Best Womenswear Designer”, you’re always controlling the women’s category strongly…

AB: No lah…

KW: So I wonder, when you design for a woman, what’s most important to you? H do know what a woman wants?

AB: I just make clothes that I want to wear. That’s how we started the business. I made clothes because I couldn’t afford to buy designer brands. You know how when you’re a girl that loves fashion and you really want fashionable pieces but your budget is limited, you become really creative.

When I create a collection, I make things that I would wear, and think where would I wear it, how would I wear it, and how long will it stay in my closet? Is it a piece that I can change it up or wear it separately with other things? So I guess your question, how do I know what to make for what type of woman, there’s no type of woman actually. I think that woman is me but more like…I’ve never been a skinny, skinny girl, I’ve always been curvy.

So I think I understand how curvy girls want to dress—and dressing skinny girls is very easy! So the most important part is mastering cuts and drapping, that would complement a curvy woman’s body and then from there, we go into creating what I really want to make for the collection. The sexy stuff, the more showy stuff, and then I’ll just balance it out.

KW: I also can relate to that, you know, personal style. I think what’s strongest as a designer, at least for me personally, is to ask whether I will wear it.

AB: Okay, I have a question for you. When you create your collection, who is your target market?

KW: It’s pretty tricky for me to lock myself into one market. Because I feel I’ve been searching for that market in all my years of being a designer for Behati. Because we do Chinese New Year, Raya, we also do Deepavali.

And different cultures involve different people, you know what I mean? I’m also confused sometimes because Behati has always shown this type of woman in the Malay market, but the Chinese women are not like that at all. But I need to sell to my Chinese customer. So, with every culture, I do have a different target customer in mind—the Chinese girl is not the same as my Raya girl. They are complete opposites.

The guys are pretty similar because the dress code and the styling they can still buy into it. But the women are just so different. The common trait that I see for any Behati customer is that they want something different. I think that’s how I would sum up who can actually be my customer.  So if you’re looking for something that lets you stand out…

AB: You want to arrive!

KW: Yes! You want to “arrive” for Raya or your Chinese New Year dinner… That’s what I get whenever I ask them why they come to Behati. It’s a niche market, but it is a market. Respectfully, as a business model, it’s a more risky thing to do. But that’s the playfulness of the brand.

We do want to experiment with different markets—I don’t want to just stick to one type of man or woman because I feel for Behati, we play with multicultural elements. I want the brand to relate to everyone, as many as possible. In different ways because it’s still a long journey to go and now I’m just at a stage where I just want people to notice the brand.

AB:What is your thought process before you create your videos?

KW: You’ll be surprised that most of my videos are all directed on set.

AB: Really? You don’t make a storyboard or whatever?

KW: It’s all in my head.

AB: No way…

KW: I don’t have time to make the storyboard. You know how busy it is to make a baju, right? Until the very last minute.

Of course I will imagine how I want the lookbook to look like and everything. To pick a location that’s flexible enough to work on set, that is very important. But most of it comes a few hours before the show.

AB: No way! So how did you plan for Amber Chia to spin around that courtyard…? [For the Behati Chinese New Year 2024 campaign].

KW: When Amber was in hair and make-up, I was walking around the centre and just replaying the music over and over again just to envision how I wanted the shoot to go. But most of it I already have the main storyline of who is fighting who…but even with that scene of the musicians with the drums, everything I planned on the spot.

AB: But those people you hired beforehand?

KW: Yes, I knew that they were coming, but I didn’t yet know what I wanted to do with them. Everything was choreographed on set.

AB: Even for last year’s Raya campaign, in the paddy fields?

KW: I had a few scenes in mind that I wanted to shoot, but most of it was decided on set. What’s most fun about being on set is that I make it an experience for my models and talents. You can ask them, it’s a bit challenging to be on my set because I do try to push them to their limits (laughs). To just let it out, just freestyle and be yourself…

But before this, we also shot a lot of dance choreography, but I didn’t tell them that they have to dance a certain way. I didn’t  know what they were going to do. So, I just tell them, okay, the camera is going to go like this, I will decide on set and tell the videographer how I imagine it to be, and then the actor will have to make it work following the formation that I choreographed. I don’t want to tell them specifically what to do. Because I feel the most organic thing about filming a video is also that moment that is meant to happen. That moment that I didn’t just plan. So they really just shine in what they do best. My team is really Team Make It Happen (laughs).

KW: What is something that you wish you knew when you first started out your brand?

AB: I think all designers will say this, but production is a bitch. Designing is just designing, but then what comes after that—production, making sure your quality is up to par with what you think you want to pay for as a consumer, the work that goes into the collection, and predicting styles that you think that you like but other people will like also… because sometimes when I design, the piece that I really love is the piece that doesn’t do well and the one that I really, really don’t like is the piece that sells out. Why is it like that? What’s wrong with you guys?! (laughs)

That’s the most confusing part as a designer for me. Because at the end of the day, it’s not all about me At the end of the day, it’s for the company. We need to make money, we have to pay people. There’s so many moving parts in making a brand successful. And it’s not just about the designer and the collection. Don’t be so perasan. The collection is the brand, you need to think that when you’re a designer, you are not only making things that you like.

For my first few collections, it was, okay, I’m just going to make whatever I think I want to do today, then at the end two weeks, we have a full collection. That was how we functioned the first two to three years. Because also, we didn’t really have a big customer base. So we learned along the way.

But now that we have four collections a year, I’m not just gonna make anything that I dreamt last night. I really plan my collections now.

KW: What was your first goal as a designer and how has that evolved throughout the years?

AB: Our first goals, we were really craving to have a proper collection that we could show. Because when you’re a brand and nobody knows you, who’s going to look at your designs? There was no Instagram, and Twitter just started but no one knew how to use it. I just wanted to show something that I’ve sewn, on the stage. That was my dream.

So I kept on applying for MIFA, the Malaysian International Fashion Alliance, fashion shows. Every time, I got rejected. We got rejected so many times by MIFA that Jimmy then said, “F*ck it. Let’s do our own show.” I was thinking, Who’s gonna come? “Our friends.” Who?! “The people we party with!”

(laughs)

So we just planned our own show despite not having the budget. The team told me to just create my collection, and they’d make it happen. So we invited our party friends, and they had influential friends. We knew Tengku Chanela Jamidah, and she knew Magie (Abang Saufi) who knew a lot of people…and that’s how I met Syomir (Izwa Gupta). Then, we did our show in Publika, and then Syomir came. Actually, we didn’t think that he would come because to us he was Mister Syomir, okay? He was an established designer with a shop in Publika. So he came to the backstage, said hi and asked if we needed any help. I was fangirling, it was so funny!

So that was the goal for the brand then, to have our own show. It was what we really wanted. But now, what I really want for the brand is to sustain. Now that we have our client database, our fans and friends, the thing that troubles me is sustaining and keeping the brand relevant especially in this ever-changing time. Everything’s so fast. And I’m getting older, so now I want for the brand to always remain relevant.

KW: I think it’s very important for any fashion brand to always be in fashion. That is the biggest challenge.

AB: The pandemic was the most difficult for us, but we found a different strength during that time. I was so worried then that I didn’t pay for myself for a year because I wanted to pay my staff, make sure they were happy and continued working with me even though we were in a pandemic.

BAZAAR: How long ago was the Publika show?

AB: I think about 12 years ago? We were very lucky when we wanted to do that show. I mean, we were very unlucky that MIFA didn’t want to recognise us. It was Tengku Syahmi actually, who was part of the MIFA gang, who pushed me to apply to MIFA.

We knew someone who was working for the White Box (at Publika), a space that nobody knew about and he told us we could use the place for free as long as we talked about it. So we did our show there. And then MIFA contacted us, right after our show. (laughs)

Idan did the make-up. It was so funny. We had a community of really, really good friends who loved fashion who just wanted to help us do it, at that time.

KW: The community was so different back then.

AB: Yeah, now it’s all about money (laughs).

AB: What is your dream for Behati in the future?

KW: How I see Bahati is… for me, when you visit Malaysia, you have to go to Behati. I want to promote our culture, that’s how I see the brand. The goal is to connect with more people so people can see themselves in Behati. Promote local culture and craft. A piece of Malaysia is from Behati. Whether you’re a tourist, or orang Malaysia, you would like to have Behati as part of your wardrobe. For tourists, it’s like getting a piece of something that is wearable for you to wear, not in Malaysia, but in your country, that’s modern enough to be accepted in the worldwide image of fashion.

Something that’s cultural, but cool enough to wear to an international fashion week. We are still at the very beginning stage…

AB: How old is your brand now?

KW: This is our sixth year. Still a journey to go.

AB: But although still young, you’re already so good. Imagine what the next six years will look like.

KW: It’s a different vision. Like how you see your goal: when you first started as a designer, you wanted to do a show. and now you want to sustain. I think I’m in a kind of transition. I know from here onwards, after getting the attention already, what am I going to do with it? So with this Raya season, it’s about going back to what I want to say, always talk about how we reinvent tradition and all that. Don’t just be a hot topic, you know? I want people to read into the fashion.

I know that as a designer, every year you switch moods. So I really just follow my heart.

AB: But that’s the best way. You know how you do your films? It’s always very organic, very from the heart. That’s the best way to live, honestly. Not just in your work.

KW: What is your proudest achievement so far?

AB: I don’t have a proudest achievement. But for me something that makes me happy is when my friends or clients send photos like, “Hey I saw your skirt on this girl in Bali” or “I’m in Melbourne and there’s this girl that wore your dress to a wedding.”

Not just women in Malaysia that wear my stuff. We also ship to Hong Kong, we have brides that are in Texas and London. I won’t say it’s an achievement but it is something that puts a smile on my face.

KW: I think that also brings you pride, when we hear about people wearing our clothes especially from somewhere that is so random.

AB: It’s so nice to see Malaysian designers do well abroad. Okay, one time, I walked into this boutique in Mykonos—and Mykronos is style, the people are young and happening, everyone is fashionable.

So I was in the boutique and flipping through the rack, and there was Joe Chia. An entire rack. And I was like, “Wow, Joe Chia is in Mykonos.” And we don’t even know it. That’s amazing. It made me proud.

BAZAAR: What about Scha Alyahya at the Venice Film Festival 2023?

AB: Yes, Scha at the film fest. I’m very thankful that she chose me. She just called and said, “I’m going. Dress me.” Like that’s it! But Scha is just an easy person to style. She doesn’t really care about how she’s going to look like, because she can carry it. I was asking, “Is this okay?” and she just replied, “Anything, anything.” She didn’t even look at my sketch! (laughs) So okay, that was something.

KW: That was definitely a moment.

AB: Yeah. For me, that was one of my proudest moments. To dress our Malaysian celebrity abroad for a red carpet.

KW: What I really appreciate is how subtle it was. I mean the impact was great, your design had such grace. It’s not in-your-face!

AB: But ada impact tak? (laughs)

KW: Of course! Subtle in a great way. It was so elegant and it spoke of your brand, you didn’t run away from your style.

AB: I designed that dress like a collaboration. Honestly when I design, I really think about the woman first. And Scha is this kind of girl that doesn’t wear poofy dresses. When it came to designing it, I treated it as if she was just going to a red carpet in Malaysia. I didn’t expect anything else from it. My thought was, I’m just gonna design it the way I like it and the way I think is enough, and I’m not even gonna try so hard. I know that my designs are not over the top, sometimes it may look boring so I play with colours.

KW: In a very tasteful way.

AB: It’s more quiet lah. I’m very introverted when it comes to my designs. (laughs)

KW: But it’s the aura that it gave out. Because it was just so perfect, with the hair and the make-up. Scha looked like an international star, like she was an Oscar winner already!

AB: She got style lah. And she’s also the same. “I’m not gonna try so hard.”

KW: She’s like that. Just dress her and she’ll do the rest!

AB: What are your thoughts on the current situation with Malaysian fashion?

KW: I don’t see it as bright now, honestly. Especially for the industry. It’s not growing in the right ratio especially when it comes to production. It’s only a few more years until all of our productions close down.

AB: Why, what do you mean?

KW: The local production is not so strong.

AB: Ah.

KW: Even our graduates now, we don’t have tailors.

AB: Yes, there are no tailors. Who wants to learn how to sew?

KW: They’re all foreigners. I feel that’s a bad sign. For the fashion industry we should have local people making our clothes. Later all our stuff will made overseas. Like the shoe industry here, that is dying. Tailoring is a dying craft, we only see the old uncles and aunties drafting. Where are the young tailors? Also because the market here is very low. How much are we paying these people? It’s not fair for those who actually put so much effort into their craft. But I also feel that people over here don’t really appreciate fashion as much.

AB: Even their spending also.

KW: I think it’s in our schools also. When you really understand art and craft, then you appreciate its value. If not, then you wouldn’t think it’s worth your money. Because if you don’t understand how it works, you will compare with H&M and think that fashion should be really cheap. That a top should be less than a hundred ringgit.

So I can understand that it’s so hard for young designers to grow now, to have your own brand.

AB: Unless you sell cheap.

KW: Exactly. Unless you sell cheap or do made-to-measure. That’s the only two markets available here in Malaysia that you can really sustain. Anywhere, in the middle, it’s just very hard. So I don’t think the industry has so bright of a future. It’s going to be more and more challenging. So thank goodness I started a bit earlier. But to start now, I feel it’s very hard. You don’t really see new designers coming out every year.

AB: Actually, yes. Last time, there were more, right? This past two, three years, I don’t see new faces. It is difficult. I remember talking to Afiq M. two or three years ago, and he said he wanted to give it up already. This was before he met his new investor.

KW: I definitely hear it a lot. A lot of designers are actually expressing this stress. Don’t even talk about the new designers yet.

AB: When I went to New York, one of my designer friends, Didid Maulana, was showing at New York Fashion Week. So I went to the Indonesian pavilion. It was this big marquee tent and they had a show, for six or seven Indonesian designers, that are paid for by the Indonesian government who flew some models in for the show. It was so damn nice. Our government used to give us support but we don’t have that anymore.

So the future of fashion designers in Malaysia doesn’t look bright lah?

KW: Oops. Sorry! Sorry to bring this up, guys!

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.